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is my car legal in sts?

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  • is my car legal in sts?

    i drive a 99 honda prelude type sh..

    it has a so call Active Torque Transfer System.
    it is similar to this HERE!!

    it transfers torque and makes the outside wheel spin faster.

    i have tried to run the car with one drive wheel on the ice and the other wheel on the pavement. surprisingly, the wheel on the ice spinned like it has an open diff.

    i started my season today with my car running in STS.

    anyone here could help me to verify this?

  • #2
    Re: is my car legal in sts?

    Your car is not listed here: http://www.scca.com/_Filelibrary/Fil...ionsbymake.pdf

    But maybe you could e-mail them to see if ATTS qualifies for LSD?

    I remember Joe telling about this e-mail that you can use to ask for rule clarification, but I can't seem to find it.
    If I keep changing colors... I just might win a jacket!

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    • #3
      Re: is my car legal in sts?

      [email protected]
      Keith
      Something blue and sparkly
      www.chaserace.com
      www.tightntidyracing.com

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      • #4
        Re: is my car legal in sts?

        Response from Doug Gill SCCA Solo Technical Director:

        "ATTS stands for "Active Torque Transfer System" and can transfer as much as 80% of the engine torque to the outside drive wheel.

        A limited slip diff basically does the same thing - transfers torque to the wheel with the greater traction (which also happens to be the outside drive wheel). The function of ATTS is similar to a limited slip diff. It even has components that can be found in a limited slip diff - gears and clutches. One difference between ATTS and a traditional limited slip diff is the limited slip diff is a reactive torque transfer device. The limited slip diff restriction in STS does not specify only traditional in-the-diff-case limited slip diffs but do not allow any limited slip diffs including those non-traditional units that are external to the diff case.

        The more I look at the rule to see how ATTS could be allowed, I don't see it specifically required for the device to be inside the diff case. Just because the ATTS is external to the diff doesn't change how it works."

        We should probably expect a Fastrack bulletin on this in the near future.
        Peter: Oh my god, Brian, there's a message in my Alphabits. It says, 'Oooooo.'
        Brian: Peter, those are Cheerios.

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        • #5
          Re: is my car legal in sts?

          i totally understand what Doug meant.

          i have no problem if other competitors wants me to get out from sts now.

          however, i dont' think the advantage that ATTS gives me will outperform the weight that added on to my car.

          the point i want to make is " ATTS has some similarity to LSD, but it is not a LSD like another STS competitor said"

          and the rulebook said, "LSD is not permitted in STS"

          so the logic is like that:
          1.STS cannot have LSD
          2.ATTS is not equal LSD
          3. ATTS is legal in STS

          Can someone define the meaning of LSD??

          to me LSD is a Limited Silp Differential
          LSD is a differential.
          ATTS is not a Differential.

          without a differential, my car can't drive
          without the ATTS , my car still can drive

          point it out if i am wrong here pls

          Roger
          Last edited by prelude318is; May 12, 2005, 01:25.

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          • #6
            Re: is my car legal in sts?

            Originally posted by prelude318is
            i totally understand what Doug meant.

            i have no problem if other competitors wants me to get out from sts now.

            however, i dont' think the advantage that ATTS gives me will outperform the weight that added on to my car.

            the point i want to make is " ATTS has some similarity to LSD, but it is not a LSD like another STS competitor said"

            and the rulebook said, "LSD is not permitted in STS"

            so the logic is like that:
            1.STS cannot have LSD
            2.ATTS is not equal LSD
            3. ATTS is legal in STS

            Can someone define the meaning of LSD??

            to me LSD is a Limited Silp Differential
            LSD is a differential.
            ATTS is not a Differential.

            without a differential, my car can't drive
            without the ATTS , my car still can drive

            point it out if i am wrong here pls

            Roger
            If I read the rules correctly, you can have an LSD in STS as long as it is a viscous type. Helical and clutch type lsd's put you in STX, which is why I am in STX but an NX2000 with the stock vlsd is in STS.
            08 Nike Shox H/S???

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            • #7
              Re: is my car legal in sts?

              Originally posted by SumAznGuy
              If I read the rules correctly, you can have an LSD in STS as long as it is a viscous type. Helical and clutch type lsd's put you in STX, which is why I am in STX but an NX2000 with the stock vlsd is in STS.
              Viscous type is not the "LSD" in question.


              From Doug's reply, he seems to think as long as ATTS "acts" like a limited slip differential and contains similar parts that can be found in one (even though it can be interpretted as being an external device), it can be considered as an active helical or clutch type LSD.

              But the rules aren't very clear in the rulebook, I think we can expect an update as Cliff pointed out.
              If I keep changing colors... I just might win a jacket!

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: is my car legal in sts?

                Originally posted by KenJai
                Viscous type is not the "LSD" in question.


                From Doug's reply, he seems to think as long as ATTS "acts" like a limited slip differential and contains similar parts that can be found in one (even though it can be interpretted as being an external device), it can be considered as an active helical or clutch type LSD.

                But the rules aren't very clear in the rulebook, I think we can expect an update as Cliff pointed out.
                I bring this up because Roger stated that lsd is no allowed in STS, but it is.
                The only thing is that the ATTS is not an actual LSD, though it may contain similar parts to an actual lsd. Soon, we will know the ruling.
                08 Nike Shox H/S???

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: is my car legal in sts?

                  Originally posted by SumAznGuy
                  I bring this up because Roger stated that lsd is no allowed in STS, but it is.
                  The only thing is that the ATTS is not an actual LSD, though it may contain similar parts to an actual lsd. Soon, we will know the ruling.
                  Yes I know that, but it's quite cumbersome to say "LSD except for factory viscous type" everytime. That's why I pointed out what he meant was helical or clutch type when he said "LSD".
                  If I keep changing colors... I just might win a jacket!

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                  • #10
                    Re: is my car legal in sts?

                    doug said, Atts acts like an lsd and it has similar parts as lsd , example, gear and clutches.

                    oh well, i knwo a lot of auto components are made by gear and clutches

                    about the device acts like a lsd, i knwo some other auto makers using advanced traction control to apply brake to the free spinning wheel so that the wheel which has traction can have drive force. in this design, it doesnt need a lsd or an ATTS unit. Power transfer could be easily achieved by using the plaino open diff.

                    with so many design diversities nowaday, my suggestion is to use the car's actual performance to decide what class it should be in, instead of just saying LSD is not permitted in the rule book.

                    like ken said, it is very cumbersome to list out this kinda LSD is allowed and other kind is not allowed. in this case, my atts falls between the gap.

                    Roger

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                    • #11
                      Re: is my car legal in sts?

                      From my conversations w/ Doug Gill, the gist of the allowance is how the device functions. Is it a viscous type diff? No. Does it function like and LSD? Yes. Is the device internal to the diff? No, but the rule does not distinguish between internal/external torque/traction management devices.

                      I posed the question to Doug regarding how other traction management devices are treated such as VW's ABS/EDL 'electronic differential lock'. It acts like a LSD but uses the brakes and the ABS circuit to control wheel spin. I'll have to wait and see how this issue turns out. But for now, the ruling will stand.
                      Peter: Oh my god, Brian, there's a message in my Alphabits. It says, 'Oooooo.'
                      Brian: Peter, those are Cheerios.

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                      • #12
                        Re: is my car legal in sts?

                        Cliff, then how come viscous type lsd is allowed?
                        it functions and it is a lsd...

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                        • #13
                          Re: is my car legal in sts?

                          Dunno. That's just how they made the division when STS and STX first got formed.
                          Peter: Oh my god, Brian, there's a message in my Alphabits. It says, 'Oooooo.'
                          Brian: Peter, those are Cheerios.

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                          • #14
                            Re: is my car legal in sts?

                            I'm about 99% sure that they only allow viscous LSD's in STS so that it keeps the Integra Type R out
                            95 Mustang

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                            • #15
                              Re: is my car legal in sts?

                              Originally posted by prelude318is
                              Cliff, then how come viscous type lsd is allowed?
                              it functions and it is a lsd...
                              The thought was to keep the performance oriented models that had a potential to dominate like the Integra Type R and BMW 318is, which had helical and clutch LSD, away from the class. Certain cars with VLSD's were deemed compatible with the class like the Nissan Sentra SER so they specifically allowed only cars with factory VLSD.

                              Alex

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