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Calculating PAX

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Cliffy:

    PAX = (Scratch time X index) + penalties
    <hr></blockquote>

    Yup. that's what it says on the pre-reg sheet I'm holding in my hand. Sounds fair.

    Les

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  • Audi200tq
    replied
    <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Mike-L:
    Driver A's time should be 46.86.

    --Mike
    <hr></blockquote>

    My bad. But it still works.

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  • Mike-L
    replied
    Driver A's time should be 46.86, but that doesn't change the outcome. I guess you could consider it a bonus for a clean run.

    --Mike

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  • Audi200tq
    replied
    <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by HedgeHog:
    I would think rankings within a class would be affected also. <hr></blockquote>

    Only in the post-pax calculations. This could potentially end up with a situation where, in division, one driver is ahead on another, but in indexing, their standings are reversed.

    For example, 2 drivers in H-stock (pax=.781)

    Driver A: 60.0 seconds, clean run
    Driver B: 57.7 seconds, +1 cone
    - in the division Driver B wins

    (Scratch+penalty)* pax
    Driver A: 46.68 pax time
    Driver B: 46.62 pax time
    - driver B still wins

    (scratch*pax)+ penalty
    Driver A: 46.68
    Driver B: 47.06
    - with proper pax, Driver A finishes ahead

    Things that make you go hmmm......

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    No, you never pax cones, since a cone is a cone no matter what you drive. The speed you hit it is irrelevant (H/S 40mph or A/M 60mph)- it's still a penalty. Always PAX*scratch times, then add cones.

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  • HedgeHog
    replied
    I would think rankings within a class would be affected also. Cuz a clean run would not have the cones X 2sec advantage (unless you're A-Mod) that it normally has.

    eg. if PAX is 0.8 and both drivers gets 30s but one hits 1 cone. (time + cone penalty) * PAX -&gt; 24s vs 25.6s while (time * PAX) + cone penalty -&gt; 24s vs 26.0s.

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  • thatVWguy
    replied
    Lawrence,

    PAX = (Scratch time X index) + penalties

    All cones displaced count for 2 sec. for everyone. Although some people might disagree, you shouldn't get a discount on your cone penalties just because you drive in H-Stock (sorry Les).

    Regular class standings shouldn't be affected but any ranking based on the index, like the Rookie and 'Top Gun' standings will need to be adjusted.

    -c.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    this would be better for ppl in the higher class such as SP and MOD, because our cones counts way more. Which kinda makes sense.

    You get PAX time b/c of the way your car is. But you hit cones b/c of the way you drive. So number of cones shouldn't matter with different classes.

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  • Audi200tq
    replied
    This also affects novice standings since we're all in different classes.

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  • Law C
    replied
    actually, the "error" will only affect Index time listing but not class points. Class points calculation is done by 1st in Class Corrected Time(not PAX) / Best Corrected Time (not Pax) * 100

    However, PAX Class's corrected time is actually PAXed. Uh-oh. gotta discuss this with the rule's commitee. I believe they'll have a meeting this Friday.

    [ June 25, 2002: Message edited by: Law C ]</p>

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  • Law C
    replied
    Mike, you free?

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  • Mike-L
    replied
    <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Law C:
    But please don't tell me I have to re-do all the result again <hr></blockquote>

    No, it's simple. You just plug in a new formula.


    --Mike

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  • Law C
    replied
    very good point Mike.
    But please don't tell me I have to re-do all the result again

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  • Mike-L
    started a topic Calculating PAX

    Calculating PAX

    I don't think the PAX times are being calculated correctly, but there's nothing in the CACC rule book (at least I couldn't find anything) that says how they should be figured.

    Current practice is to take the best total time, including penalties, and multiply by the PAX index for the class, using the formula: (Time + Penalty) x Index = PAX Time

    The problem with that method is that penalties are discounted, depending on the index value of the class. One cone penalty costs Joe 2 sec in AM, but one cone only costs Bernie 1.66 sec (2 x .830) in SS and Leslie 1.562 sec (2 x .781) in HS. That's not consistent with the intent of PAX, which is to compare times on an equal footing.

    The formula used elsewhere, including NWR/SCCA, is (Time x Index) + Penalty = PAX Time.

    Using my time at event #3 as an example, the current method yields:
    (58.647 + 2) x .804 = 60.647 x .804 = 48.760

    More correct (I believe) would be:
    (58.647 x .804) + 2 = 47.152 + 2 = 49.152

    While I'd rather have the lower total, I don't think it's correct. (I'd really rather I hadn't tipped over the first cone in the slalom, or had stopped for the displaced cone on my 3rd run. )

    I think this should be brought to the CACC Board for clarification, and I think the formula should be included in the rule book, probably in section 5.8.AA. Probably can't be changed for this year, even if the other formula is adopted.

    --Mike
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